[Blabber] Electronics Recycling Day at Tekserve

Matthew Duepner matthewduepner14 at gmail.com
Thu Jan 16 17:08:51 UTC 2014


That is fine as long as he has a use for them.


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Meryl Greenblatt <
merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com> wrote:

> In the meantime, how about giving those electrolytic caps to Vincent if
> they're the right size? We know they'll be used. I don't know how many
> there are; we could keep a few if they're needed at the space.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Matthew Duepner <
> matthewduepner14 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> the only things we would really get rid of would be old computers and
>> crap like that.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Meryl Greenblatt <
>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Works for me. Keep these; we can refer to them fondly as "Spare Parts."
>>> When you "really" don't need something anymore it can go in the laundry
>>> cart or recycle bin.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:58 PM, David Reeves <drreeves at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hmm, the Computer Hardware box has stuff in it that gets frequently
>>>> used, so please don't throw that out. There is a large box with a white lid
>>>> that contains other potentially useful cables and devices, so please leave
>>>> that too. I think the purple box is also useful stuff in the main, and
>>>> belongs to Konstantin. I frequently use stuff from all three, and trash was
>>>> removed from those recently during our clearout.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Peter's idea for a more clearly-labeled single
>>>> swap/free-for-all box.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Meryl Greenblatt <
>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think this is getting complicated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's just clean out the three areas that Justin mentioned - the
>>>>> purple bin, the (soon-to-be-extinct; whoever cleans it out can use the box
>>>>> for their stuff) Abandoned Projects box, and the PC hardware box under the
>>>>> Ultimaker.
>>>>>
>>>>> Going forward, if you don't want something electronic anymore, put it
>>>>> in the  white rolling laundry hamper. Once it's in there, it's up for
>>>>> grabs, until the next recycling day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plastic remains should go out Thursday nights with the stuff to be
>>>>> recycled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple enough?
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Peter Shenkin <shenkin at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Two points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I think we should have a "steal these parts" box, or call it "use
>>>>>> it or lose it" box, or whatever we wish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. I can't think of a good use of the "abandoned projects" box except
>>>>>> for this purpose. If we want to keep the pieces assembled, then it's not
>>>>>> abandoned. If we're willing for people to pull pieces out and use them or
>>>>>> place them back in the variously labeled parts boxes, then this serves the
>>>>>> purpose of a "steal these parts" box. Of course, anyone working on an
>>>>>> "abandoned project" is free to take possession of the pieces themselves and
>>>>>> put them in their own box for future use -- in which case, again, they're
>>>>>> not really abandoned. But having an untouchable "abandoned projects" box
>>>>>> seems to serve no function at all. They're then just parts that members do
>>>>>> not feel free to take, use, disassemble or recycle. This creates a much
>>>>>> higher barrier to (re)use than the various labeled parts boxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But even if people disagree with (2) for reasons I've not thought of,
>>>>>> I still think we need a (1).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -P.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Justin Levinson <
>>>>>> localtalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fair point, it is a fine line.  I've definitely raided the 'hack
>>>>>>> this' bin for projects many times in the past to scrounge connectors,
>>>>>>> cables, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't really have an 'abandoned projects' bin that's active -
>>>>>>> there's a small box labeled 'abandoned projects' with some stuff in it and
>>>>>>> a 'purge bin' that we tried last spring just after the move but both fell
>>>>>>> by the wayside.  The purple bin in the corner and the PC hardware box under
>>>>>>> the Ultimaker are where most of the stray parts end up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Peter Shenkin <shenkin at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Broadly, hackers are guilty of 'this might be useful someday' and
>>>>>>>> hang onto too much" Careful, there. If it weren't for this, we could never
>>>>>>>> have equipped our space in the early days. :-)l
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we should have a policy that the "abandoned projects" bin
>>>>>>>> is fair game for anyone to take something from that they want and put it in
>>>>>>>> their own bin (or home, or anywhere). Anything unclaimed after a while goes
>>>>>>>> to e-waste, or external recycling.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -P.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Justin Levinson <
>>>>>>>> localtalent at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the heads-up, Meryl.  These recycling days do come
>>>>>>>>> around from time to time but having one so close is very convenient.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If something has been left out for this long unclaimed, it's
>>>>>>>>> probably time for it to go.  Broadly, hackers are guilty of 'this might be
>>>>>>>>> useful someday' and hang onto too much - and space is at a premium.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IIRC, the 'abandoned projects' bin is small, but the purple bin in
>>>>>>>>> the corner could use going through.  I can do some of it Thursday since I
>>>>>>>>> have a fair recollection of what's been in there for a long time.  If you'd
>>>>>>>>> like to keep something specific that's in that bin or has been left out
>>>>>>>>> around the machine shop area, grab it and put it in your personal storage
>>>>>>>>> or it's fair game for exiting stage left.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And if there's electronics to be voluntarily disposed of, the
>>>>>>>>> white rolling laundry hamper is our de facto e-waste storage.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Robert O'Connor <
>>>>>>>>> robby.oconnor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mean Thursday
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --rob
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my cell...excuse typos
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2014 9:39 AM, robby.oconnor at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wanna take apart stuff tomorrow... I need practice desoldering
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --rob
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my cell...excuse typos
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2014 9:30 AM, "Meryl Greenblatt" <
>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a plan. I like Vincent's deconstruction event idea
>>>>>>>>>>>> - I have a broken DVD player that needs taking apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:31 AM, Robby O'Connor <
>>>>>>>>>>>> robby.oconnor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at 'em...I just felt maybe we should put them in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something for communal use...if you have an immediate use...nobody thus far
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has acknowledged their existence other than me...so doubtful anybody would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> miss 'em...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --rob
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 01/14/2014 12:07 AM, Vincent wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If those electrolytic caps have an operating temp of 105 deg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I* would like a chance to take what's left.    They're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awesome repair
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components, especially after I get my ESR meter up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've also thrown around the idea of "deconstruction cafes" -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where people ... take ... stuff ... apart.    Keep the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electronic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components, separate plastic from metal, and responsibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dispose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what's left.   w00t.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Robby O'Connor <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robby.oconnor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm coming in on Thursday...there's a bag of electrolytic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caps in our junk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> box...I'll help go through that...I think it'd be a shame if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we threw those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out! Also I wanna go through it too...maybe some stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there...we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvest for some cool stuff...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon 13 Jan 2014 04:44:18 PM EST, Meryl Greenblatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's battle that out on Thursday ; )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Matthew Duepner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <matthewduepner14 at gmail.com <mailto:matthewduepner14@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Do we get to keep the parts we decide not to get rid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of, or do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      they remain the property of HM?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Robert Diamond <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rmd6502 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      <mailto:rmd6502 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          I'll be there tonight very briefly, tomorrow for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the meeting,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          and Thursday for Electronics class
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Meryl Greenblatt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          <merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          <mailto:merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              Ok - what's your schedule look like?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Robert Diamond
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              <rmd6502 at gmail.com <mailto:rmd6502 at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  Exactly what I was thinking!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Meryl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greenblatt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  <merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  <mailto:merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      Well, that gives us till Friday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      I'm not planning to stop by Tuesday,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      there Thursday. By then, can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone(s):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      1. Pull out any abandoned projects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boxes and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      them together to be looked through?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      that table near the machine shop?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      2. Do the looking through? I can do it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      but stuff may get recycled that a more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      knowledgeable person would have kept.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      3. Reply here that you're doing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> above so we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      don't work at cross-purposes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      Does anyone else want to weigh in on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this? It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      not meant to be a unilateral decision,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      opportunity to clear the space a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      have a partially filled "basket"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's heading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      for recycling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      Meryl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matthew Duepner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      <matthewduepner14 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      <mailto:matthewduepner14 at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                          True.  We should probably look
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                          stuff before we dispose of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                          On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:21 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meryl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                          Greenblatt <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                          <mailto:merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              It's the thought that counts :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 2:07
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PM, Matthew
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              Duepner <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matthewduepner14 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              <mailto:matthewduepner14@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  I definitely would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that.  There
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  are bound to be some good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  those boxes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1:09 PM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  Robert Diamond <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rmd6502 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                  <mailto:rmd6502 at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      Also I recommend we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dump in any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      boxes labeled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "abandoned projects"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      or "unclaimed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects" - Claim by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      Friday!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      On Mon, Jan 13, 2014
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at 9:56 AM,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      Meryl Greenblatt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                      wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          Hi Folks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          The Lower East
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Side Ecology
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          Center is running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a recycle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          day on January
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 18th. It takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          place at Tekserve,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who happens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          to be their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sponsor.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          I thought we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          our basket of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff we've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          decided to toss.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          how much is in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          now, and may need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          Let me know if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          available around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          Meryl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          /If at first, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          absurd, then there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          for it./
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                                          /Albert Einstein/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              <mailto:merylrgreenblatt@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              /If at first, the idea is not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absurd, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              there is no hope for it./
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                              /Albert Einstein/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      --
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      <mailto:merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      /If at first, the idea is not absurd,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      is no hope for it./
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                      /Albert Einstein/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com <mailto:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              /If at first, the idea is not absurd, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              hope for it./
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              /Albert Einstein/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>              ______________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com <mailto:merylrgreenblatt@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it./
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Albert Einstein/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> *If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for
>>>>>>>>>>>> it.*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Albert Einstein*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>>>> *If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.*
>>>>> *Albert Einstein*
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blabber mailing list Blabber at list.hackmanhattan.com
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>>>
>>> --
>>> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
>>> *If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.*
>>> *Albert Einstein*
>>>
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> merylrgreenblatt at gmail.com
> *If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.*
> *Albert Einstein*
>
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